Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to Navigating the Abyss. We are Terry and Catherine, two necessarily trauma-informed moms who, through our own journeys, were inspired to become conscious parenting coaches. We are here to share our ongoing learning and insights in the hope of bringing some new perspectives and clarity for parents who might be on similar paths. We hope you'll join us.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Hi Catherine. I just would like to just say to anybody that's listening a few things. What we do in this podcast. We often talk about conscious parenting, trauma-informed support. Now, if you've ever stayed up worrying about your teenager, wondering if you're doing enough, then clearly you're not alone, because we've walked this path, we're walking this path, and parenting through struggle, we know, can often feel overwhelming. Today, though, I get to turn the spotlight towards Catherine and her work, and Catherine has recently written Conscious Parenting, struggling Teens A Path Forward, which is a really powerful and super compassionate resource or guide for parents resource or guide for parents. So it's not just about fixing behavior, but it's far from being about fixing behavior. It's actually about slowing down and reconnecting with yourself, with your child. It's such a rich resource. She's reminding us that calm, and not control, is what helps our kids the most, and also that our nervous system is the foundation for connection our nervous system.

Speaker 2: 1:51

Today, I'm going to be asking Catherine about what helped her with the guide, what inspired her, some of the science and the wisdom behind it all, and a little bit about her own journey too. It's a wonderful opportunity to go deeper and just hear a bit more about the heart behind her work. So whether your child is in crisis or you're just looking for more connection, then this conversation is going to be for you. This, actually this is a phenomenal guide. I've been in and out of it for the last week or so and I just love it. I was just saying you, there's something about it being so expansive and covering so much ground but also being so succinct. I don't know how you manage to do that. It's amazing. I've got a few questions.

Speaker 3: 2:36

Is it okay to just start? Yeah, of course, thank you. Thank you, terry. Do say hello, yeah, yeah. For. Do you say hello, yeah, yeah, no, I thank you for that introduction and and for reading it and spending some time with it.

Speaker 3: 2:50

I just sort of felt called to put together kind of everything I've learned over the last years what five, six, seven years now, and sort of what's been most important for me and what I always come back to so that my touchstones when things get difficult. And there is a lot there and it's a lot to take, in particular, I think, if you're, if you're, new to this approach. So I just want to acknowledge that I think we're so familiar with the material and the content and it's, it's kind of how we think it's second nature to us, but I know that's not for everyone. So when people are new to this just taking it slowly, just working at one thing at a time and being really, I think, patient and understanding with yourself this is a really a new way of seeing relating with our kids, of seeing ourselves and how we engage with our kids.

Speaker 2: 3:42

so yeah, I hear you and really appreciate what you're saying. It was for you and I learning a whole new language right, so I totally hear what you're saying. So, yeah, taking that on board, going slow. I love the fact that that's what your guide brings. It's a real sort of softly gently, step-by-step approach. It's bringing so much possibility for connection. So I would love to ask you is a big overarching question this one would you just tell us something about our role as parents when our child is struggling?

Speaker 3: 4:20

yeah, I think, when our, when our young person is struggling, I think our first reaction not our instinct, but our first reaction generally is what can I do to take away this discomfort from my child and from myself?

Speaker 2: 4:40

Yeah, I mean you're right that our instinct here is to fix and but that also often deepens disconnection.

Speaker 3: 4:48

It does, because when we try and fix one, we're often not able to fix our kids because it's not what they need and two, we send a message to them that it's a disempowering message that they're not able to fix themselves.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Yeah, I hear that. What deeper need do you think might be driving that impulse in us as parents?

Speaker 3: 5:09

I think it's multi-layered. I think one need in particular is this need to feel that we are good parents right, and a good parent can fix, or needs to, should fix, the world so that their kids can thrive, right. And so we think that that's our job. And if we can't do it, what do we then feel that we're not good parents, which, as women and as mothers, really hits at our core identity.

Speaker 2: 5:35

I wonder how might a parent and maybe this might be coming back to your story and certainly mine, but how might a parent begin to notice and tend to that unmet need effectively within them? That's seeking, perhaps, validation, acceptance, approval. It's a big deal, isn't? It yeah, and rather than projecting it onto their child, actually getting that point where we notice what comes up I think the first thing is just slowing down and one knowing that you don't have to respond right away.

Speaker 3: 6:10

You're not going to have a better outcome by responding right away. By reacting right away, in fact, it'll often be worse, because you're not able to tap into this wiser part of yourself. So the first thing is just slowing down and, as I talk about in my guide, whatever you need to do to regulate your nervous system, just take some, a few deep breaths and when I talk about some, there's some resources there just ground yourself and then observe. I mean these two things. Observation is so critical observing ourselves and what is really going on here, what am I really feeling here? What is the story I'm telling myself about? What's going on.

Speaker 2: 6:51

that's just really developing that self awareness is so critical great and and I have a question you mentioned why is a self do it just? Do we all have one of those? Do you think we all have one of? Do we all have one of those? Do you think we?

Speaker 3: 7:05

all have one of those.

Speaker 2: 7:06

We all have one of those, okay, so why does it often not seem readily available to us? Where does it go, this wiser self? What happens?

Speaker 3: 7:16

Well, it was an evolutionary development right. We had to hundreds and thousands of years ago. We had to hundreds and thousands of years ago. We had to survive, and so it was this fight, flight, breeze, fawn response in order to keep ourselves safe from predators. So that's the first thing that comes is, oh my god, fear, and so I just have to immediately either take some action in order to keep myself and my loved ones safe, but then we're in that mindset, we're not able to tap into this wisdom that we all have, whether you believe it's your essence, it's this core part of you that it needs quiet to be tapped into and a feeling of safety.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Yeah, there's a wonderful explanation that you provide about all of that in the guide. I really appreciate that. When I see it on the paper it just really lands for me. But yes, the conditioning how we've been to respond is just lay it out.

Speaker 3: 8:16

Yeah, there's so many layers of conditioning around what our kids need to be doing, what they should be doing, in order to be happy, in order to have meaningful lives, in order to be let's not get started with successful, which we're not going too much into here, but we know that's a whole nother layer of layers of toxicity that we bring into these relationships with our kids. So much agenda, so much agenda. Expectation, yeah, and it's not even our, the agenda of our wiser self, right, it's the agenda of the conditioning that we've been told that, in this broken world that we're in right now, the blockers you have to check off in order to be a successful young person it is a bit like that, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 8:56

like we're walking around trying to tick boxes all the time, so I really appreciate that. Thank you, kathleen.

Speaker 3: 9:00

I was just thinking because I was mentioning to you, i'm'm in California now, in Silicon Valley, and I was with a friend and we were talking about the suicide rates of young people in this area that are so privileged and just the pressure that's put on kids to conform to these sort of expectations of success and the message being sent to these kids. Of course, unconsciously, parents don't understand what the impact of course, unconsciously, you know, parents don't understand what the impact actually is is that if they don't meet these certain criteria, then they're worth less they're worth less, to such a degree that they're taking their own lives yeah

Speaker 2: 9:39

if I can't meet those expectations and those standards, then I'm just not enough.

Speaker 3: 9:44

Yeah I hear you, yeah, so so important to be conscious of our agendas, as you're saying. Yeah, in some cases it's life and death. What is our expectation?

Speaker 2: 9:56

expectations equal disappointment. That's one of my favorite formulas, right? I'd love to ask you, because you you say in the guide that our children get to regulate through us before they regulate within themselves. But okay, catherine, this is a bit I'm throwing a bit of a curveball here. So you say in the guide that children regulate through us as parents, as caregivers, before they regulate within themselves, and I want to know if a parent themselves grew up without that co-regulation, so perhaps adults weren't available to them for emotional support, where can they begin from, especially when their nervous system is just flooded? What would you suggest?

Speaker 3: 10:46

Yeah, and I think that's the case of so many people. Yeah, right, and I think it's just starting just with breathing. Start with breathing, and I think when these situations happen, you can feel your body tightening up. You can observe, you can feel Maybe your heart starts beating, you can feel a shift in your nervous system. You just slow down just a few seconds.

Speaker 4: 11:09

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:10

And if you're able to just take a few deep breaths, right, just try and slow down and you'll, you'll feel the shift. And then there's lots of different, of course, techniques and strategies, but I think, just starting with that, just starting with some long, slow, deep breaths, I love that.

Speaker 2: 11:26

I love the simplicity of that and I know that you have a few really practical tools on this guide that I think people will enjoy exploring. But these tools and these practices, they really do bring calm right.

Speaker 3: 11:38

They really do help us to stay grounded in the midst of all of the chaos learned from Shefali taking the pause and taking a few deep breaths and whatever it is that brings you home. So going for a walk in nature or just sitting somewhere, just giving yourself that little bit of time, is critical, and I think it's interesting because when they're really young, there's more of a recognition of co-regulation with something that's going on but we forget about, even when they're older.

Speaker 3: 12:14

Yeah, so they really need that from us, particularly when they're struggling, and it's when it's particularly difficult. It's easy when they're tiny and snuggled up against you, but when they're lashing out or sobbing and saying things that are frightening, really difficult, and that's when that we're called to to regulate.

Speaker 2: 12:34

You know that was an interesting one I had to learn, which was my daughter would withdraw, so she closed door. So the amount of helplessness in me was very real. So what could I possibly do? She can't even see me. What she regulated with me, it's energetic, vibrational.

Speaker 3: 12:54

There's just something they are continually finding ways to look to us to see if we are regulated. I mean, if their primary caregiver isn't able as an adult, isn't able to regulate themselves, and they can feel it, as you're saying, it is energetic, but how on earth are they supposed to?

Speaker 2: 13:12

Absolutely they. They don't stand a chance if we're not no, a hundred percent. I get that. Thank you, that was really powerful and I have so many tools on your on those pages as well for for people to look at. So, katherine, in your work, how do you help parents distinguish between those different behaviors whether it's withdrawal, whether it's acting out, there might be rage, substance abuse how do you help parents distinguish between the behaviors and the emotional wound that those behaviors might be protecting? I know you just say you've got a great chart on your page. People can just land on that. That I mean it kind of gives it away really.

Speaker 3: 13:55

But I'm asking you here because we're talking about this resource I think it's really stopping and versus recognizing that there is a need there is a need underneath the behavior, right, and still I get into this and I know it's just human natures.

Speaker 3: 14:14

Oh, their behavior it's because they're trying to do something to me or they're. We put labels on it but they're rebellious, or they're being rude and we talk about boundaries and right, you don't have to allow yourself to be a doormat. And but I think really taking the time to try and understand what that need might be because we shift the behavior by addressing the need, that's a really powerful statement that you make in your document, which is address the need and the behavior will shift.

Speaker 3: 14:44

Yeah, it may not shift tomorrow. There's no quick fixes, but this is how it will shift.

Speaker 2: 14:49

Yes, right.

Speaker 3: 14:50

My experience too, too, and yours right so yeah, and I think, to use an example, we might have spoken about this before, but when, at a point where my daughter was really struggling and I was terrified and so what? I was being told to keep her safe, keep her somewhere where she was not going to be able to harm herself, and I wasn't seeing the need underneath that, which was the need to belong, to be seen. And had I been able to flip that and said, wait, I'm going to look at the need, I think I would have taken different steps.

Speaker 2: 15:28

I hear that, yes, we did touch on that in an earlier episode, so tune in to that one. Um, yeah, and I think it might be the one just before this one. It might've been.

Speaker 2: 15:38

Yeah, okay, so I'm, I'm asking you a lot of questions and I'm jumping around a little bit, so I hope that's okay, it's fine. So much in this document. I'd love to just be able to cherry-pick from all of it. But you speak of attunement and I think this follows on nicely, and I love that statement that you have, which is be with, not do to. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Speaker 3: 16:00

Again, I think. So often we think we have to do something when things aren't working out the way we would hope or expect. When we're afraid, we think, okay, I have to take action so that I can change the outcome here, and that's doing too. It's a flawed assumption of what our kids really need at that time and what will really be supportive for them, and so it's just this idea of walking beside them.

Speaker 2: 16:30

Walking alongside them.

Speaker 3: 16:31

yes, yeah, letting them know that they're seen, that what they're going through is legitimate, that we're there for them if they need something, that they're loved unconditionally and that we're not bringing this charge, this frenetic energy of oh my gosh, what am I going to do to fix this? What am I going to do? Right but it's actually like okay, it's expansive, we will find a way through this. Yeah, you know I'm going to be a steady force in your life and through this process yeah, beautiful, thank you.

Speaker 2: 17:09

Yeah, I, I just think as well. Sometimes we as parents, we can come alongside, but we also have to reconcile with ourselves a little bit, right the times that we haven't done these things. Every one of us, we are only human. So for the parent that feels like they've already failed, for the parent that feels like maybe they've yelled too much too often because apparently feels like they've shut down on their kids, maybe what might you say to the part of them that's feeling feeling unworthy of being able to repair? Or shame, yeah, feeling that shame. Can you tell me a little bit about repair? What comes up?

Speaker 3: 18:00

Yeah, I think there's so much beauty and power in modeling our humanity with them, because in their lives they will do the same thing, they will make mistakes. They will not show up the way they wanted to. The same thing. They will make mistakes. They will not show up the way they wanted to for their loved ones we all do. So I think bringing some humility right and it doesn't mean we don't have to have boundaries right, but bringing humility and letting them know whatever I did was not helpful in the moment. I didn't show up the way I wanted to, and you know I'm'm sorry and I'm doing my best to learn from this and to handle things differently or whatever it is. But bringing that is. It's so important because acknowledging that you can make mistakes, yeah, but you don't have to carry that as shame, guilt. You can release that.

Speaker 2: 18:44

The important thing is that I learn and every day and I'm trying to do better as I listen to you, catherine, saying those words and you're not even speaking to me directly. I'm having an experience of receiving that and it's kind of landing and I'm going, wow, I matter, I matter, somebody really sees me, they really hear me. And if that's my experience, how much more are kids able to say those things directly?

Speaker 3: 19:11

Our kids. When they're struggling they carry so much guilt and shame right and to see their mom, their parents, being able to acknowledge this and release it and forgive themselves is so powerful. That's transformational, that's the way forward. So being able to model that for them, I think, is so important. That's transformational, that's the way forward. So being able to model that for them, I think is so important.

Speaker 2: 19:33

Well, what a brilliant response. So for the parent who already feels they failed, repair is modeling for your child. We get to say sorry and our kids get to watch us.

Speaker 3: 19:43

No, one learns anything for perfection.

Speaker 2: 19:46

I think we've also said in previous episodes you know our kids now, when they'll come to us and they'll go hey, I got that wrong. Can we try again? Again, it's just modeling a new way of being. It's amazing, Thank you. You touched on boundaries and I just super love your work around conscious boundaries. People really need to get their hands on this document because I cannot show you the way that you put it so beautifully and how we don't lead with them, but we arrive at them, and only once we've attuned to our child. So what a brilliant perspective. You pose the question what am I trying to protect by setting this boundary? Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Speaker 3: 20:28

yeah, I think also when we set boundaries, we're not even that clear about what it is we're trying to protect. It's more about this condition you should be doing this, shouldn't be doing that, etc. Etc. But I think being really clear around what is precious to you that you want to protect there is this way of looking about our values.

Speaker 2: 20:52

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:54

So really being clear, whether it be around safety, health, physical or emotional peace, respect, whatever it is that's really important to you, and how you want to raise your children and what you want in your home which I know we've talked about before being really clear that it's not about controlling them.

Speaker 2: 21:20

Yes, yes, it's important. It's a real fine line there, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 21:23

Because you can't. You can't control anyone.

Speaker 2: 21:26

What we want in our home. But then, what's the sand boundary?

Speaker 3: 21:27

What's the stone, boundary and a lot of times things will evolve.

Speaker 2: 21:29

What we want in our home, what's the sand boundary? What's the stone boundary? There's that.

Speaker 3: 21:32

And a lot of times things will evolve, you'll start to see things differently or you'll realize and that's fine, and you don't have to justify no, because as a parent, we do have authority. Yeah Right, and this is what I will accept in my home, this is what I will engage with my home, this is what I, this is what I will engage with and this is what I want I just love that you asked the question.

Speaker 2: 21:56

What is it that you're trying to protect? I think it just really focuses the mind and the heart. Um, you know how important is this actually yeah and you're right, and so many of us. You're setting boundaries, and sometimes it's just culture talking right. It's like we must meet this or we must be on it, and you, you know you can rationalize it.

Speaker 3: 22:33

But then you have to really feel it. You have to really feel comfortable with it. You have to really deeply own it, because until you do, you'll be wishy-washy.

Speaker 4: 22:46

Yeah right.

Speaker 3: 22:47

Or you'll try and reinforce a limit or boundary, and then you'll feel uncomfortable, but to really own it it's like.

Speaker 3: 22:54

This is where I am, this is where I stand on this right now, and I'm okay with that, and this is what I'm going to do and the rest is up to you, because we're not responsible for their decisions, I can't control their decisions, but it's what I need to do Now, in this moment.

Speaker 3: 23:18

I was talking to an addiction counselor last week just generally about his work with clients, which are all mostly young people, and he was saying often, parents, there's so much rumination around the lines to draw with the kids and what the implications will be, and if I give money then they might use it to buy drugs. But then if I don't give money, then there's all this calculation. We can't see, we don't know, there's too many factors. So all you can really do is okay, well, this is what I'm comfortable with, right, and I don't know what will happen, what you will decide to do, but that's beyond what I can control. But this is what I'm comfortable with. And so just being really clear about what your lane is and where you are and where they're going to be, and just knowing that you don't have control over that.

Speaker 2: 24:08

That's so clean, Catherine, what you've just described there.

Speaker 3: 24:12

It's hard to get there when things are really complicated, but I think that's where we want to be.

Speaker 2: 24:17

But you are almost applying a formula in those moments where you're taking away from the shoulds and the ideologies and you're literally saying what matters most to me here now is this, and laying it down that strikes me as incredibly powerful. You've actually got some really strong journal prompts in your guide which I think people are going to really enjoy. I certainly took some of those away and I'm just playing with them myself that reflection section, so that's, that's.

Speaker 3: 24:53

Yeah, I think this work because when our kids are struggling, it is so complex I think, taking that time I mean I sit every morning and I know we both do, and you have your contemplative practices, your meditation or whatever and journaling, and just again, it's part of tapping into that wisdom sometimes I'll say, okay, so what is my heart trying to tell me? Here I'm really listening because the answers are there, but sometimes, particularly with when fear is involved, we're not able to access that so really listening.

Speaker 2: 25:28

It brings everybody back to that beautiful space again in your guide where you talk about stillness and finding space for yourself important stillness, right, yeah, starting with the breath, take the sitting exercises and just grounding yourself, and then I have the information to come to you it does little by little.

Speaker 3: 25:48

Sometimes you can have some clarity. It comes quite suddenly, but often it's just little. It's very iterative, little by little and things start becoming queer and you start feeling more confident and sure about how you're handling situations and the energy that you're bringing to them.

Speaker 2: 26:08

Absolutely and this guide just feels like it's a bit of a handhold all the way through handling situations and the energy that you're bringing to them Absolutely. And this guide just feels like it's a bit of a handhold all the way through the process. You even bring it to the point where we're challenging beliefs and the idea that you're not just making people aware of what are you believing in this moment. I mean you've just got some beautiful questions in there, but you're also reframing. I mean I love that you've got this, you've got this chart where it's just believing a thing and then there's other possibilities.

Speaker 3: 26:33

The belief work is so powerful, isn't it? Haven't you found so in your life as well? Definitely have. What am I believing here? Exactly what am I believing here is such a powerful question, right?

Speaker 2: 26:44

And we get to rewrite the story, which is what brings you to that point where you are empowered, which is incredible.

Speaker 3: 26:51

Well, it's so powerful, the idea that you can rewrite your story and it has just as much truth as any other story, or more.

Speaker 2: 26:57

So right, because it's not based in fear Possibility that's going to bring me to a bit of a closing question which I would love to ask you sort of what story or moment in your own life has perhaps most shaped your understanding of what it truly means to parent from this kind of presence? Rather than panic, yeah, what comes up?

Speaker 3: 27:25

for you? Yeah, I think for me, the story or the new narrative that has been most powerful has been the one where I've moved from I'm responsible for my child's well-being, I'm responsible for her life and relate to that. Where her life is going doesn't seem very promising and is full of darkness and fear and bitter endings, to one where I acknowledge that she has her own path, that there's a plan and there's a journey for her to take that I can't conceive of, there's nothing to do with me and it's full of possibilities, and my job is to just accompany her on this path and but to really, really deeply know that and this is my practice right that there are, there are forces at work that I I can't see, I can't know, understand, and I just have to trust that, that she has to and she will find her path, whatever that looks like whatever that looks like but it's.

Speaker 3: 28:51

I have to take my hands off the steering wheel trying to control something that I could never control anyway you were never driving.

Speaker 2: 28:57

The car isn't it funny.

Speaker 3: 28:59

What I've loved is that idea. It's very freeing, it's very expansive. You know that someone can write the plot to their own life and that what they're struggling with now, which can seem so incredibly difficult, actually may be the forces that are going to create the most meaning in their lives, these experiences and the learning that's coming through this for their lives and for our lives.

Speaker 2: 29:33

Wow. Well, I think I must speak for everybody that just heard you say that when I say what an absolutely remarkable and beautiful and true reframe filled with possibility and not just positivity, you know we're not going for false. This is just like hang on a minute, there's some stuff that I don't, that none of us know, and, wow, am I just supposed to stand aside a little bit and come alongside and I just honestly, that was so powerful. Thank you so much, catherine. When you share little bits of your story that way and your reframing, I just want to say how moving it is and it's such a privilege to just be here with you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. In all of this right now, what would you like to speak to?

Speaker 3: 30:31

right now. What would you like to speak to? I just build on kind of what I was saying around some of the narratives that have become really important to me now, and the other one is that we have the right, the obligation, to find our own joy and meaning in our life as parents, even when things are so difficult. We need to give ourselves permission one for ourselves because we matter, and two because our kids need to see us doing this. Oh they so do.

Speaker 2: 30:54

Yeah, yeah, so yeah. That makes perfect sense. Why are we making it all about them when all they need to know is that we're okay?

Speaker 3: 31:03

Actually, they can be okay actually, yeah, well, they can be okay, well, and some days it is hard and some days things can be heavy, but that our work is to find our own path, yeah, and to find meaning in our lives and to find joy and to connect with people and to pursue the things that, partially, that this whole process and the struggling with our kids has taught us is significant, right, which is much different. I know you would agree that the things that I thought were important 10 years ago are very different than what I think are important now, and a lot of it is what I've been taught through this journey with my daughter, and so it's really important for us to to again to allow ourselves, to give ourselves permission to, to pursue these things yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 31:56

And what does our kid want? To come and look at us. They really want to see it. Just look at into our eyes and just sort of see us struggling with them because they don't need to carry that so much.

Speaker 3: 32:08

They're already carrying it. They don't need to carry also this guilt that their parent isn't flourishing because of what they've done.

Speaker 4: 32:15

Totally yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:16

Yeah Well, that was just an incredible grounding conversation and just even-. Thank you, terry. Anything else that you'd like to add? Because I would just like to sort of close with a few comments.

Speaker 3: 32:29

But what else? No, I think I've shared what I feel is most important that for parents that are struggling just to know that there is another way yeah, that they can they can find peace. It's not something that necessarily is going to happen overnight, but if they do continue to learn and continue to try to do things differently, to think about their beliefs, to work on regulating their nervous system, to develop this greater self-awareness and to know that they really can choose to see things differently, totally yeah which is huge.

Speaker 3: 33:03

You can choose, and a lot of it's about our choice, right how we're choosing to see things and just keep moving forward. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:11

I love that, and it's a little bit like when you learn something you can't unlearn it. Right it's if we just keep facing the right way. It doesn't matter how there's no timeline, doesn't matter how quickly we get. Thank you so much. Yeah, I always just feel so much more at ease with the whole world and how people are able to connect with their kids after hearing your perspective.

Speaker 3: 33:32

Likewise, Terry.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Yeah, I really appreciate it. Well, first of all, I think what really stayed with me was a reminder that presence, before anything else, certainly before panic, is what our children need the most, and that co-regulation starts with how we're showing up in our own bodies and our own nervous system, so that energetic exchange, so anybody listening. If something stirred with you today, just take a moment, just to sit with it, maybe ponder what's one small way that you could ground yourself today, and the first thing I'm going to do is get to the guide, take a little look under the resources section of the guide, so you don't have to fix everything to be a healing presence, as katherine tells us. This is very liberating, this work. It's actually very uplifting when we have the tools and we can step into those spaces and empower ourselves. This connection with our kids is just built in those small study moments, isn't it? It's just one student at a time, so where can everybody find a link to this document? Conscious Parenting Teens.

Speaker 3: 34:39

We'll just put it in the show notes.

Speaker 2: 34:41

Okay, so there's a link in the show notes. You're going to find a link to the guide Conscious Parenting Teens, and if it spoke to you, please, I would would say please, feel free to share it far and wide with someone you think might need it too, and all of their friends. I think everybody needs a copy of this. Is there anything else that you'd like to add, katherine, in terms of, am I understanding you're giving this for free? Is this a free resource?

Speaker 2: 35:04

yeah yeah, oh, okay. So there's just so much here. So, yeah, jump in and share it far and wide people. So thank you everyone for being with us today. Thank you so much, thank you thank you, terry, for your wonderful questions oh no, thank you, it's an absolute delight. So I'm take a breath, everybody. Let's just come back to ourselves and I guess we'll see you next time. Thank you, katherine, take care.

Speaker 4: 35:50

Okay, here's the legal stuff. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. We are not licensed therapists and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. See you next time.